If God’s Not Dead…

This is a discussion we had from facebook that though it got quite heated here and there, stayed scholarly and somewhat rational.

I’ve brought it over here to wordpress to not only share with the rest of the world, but also to make it easier to reply to individual comments (which facebook will not let us do).

The brash statement I make below is based on a critical analysis of God as a Literary Character in a novel.  If one were to read a synopsis of the Tanakh as a story, one would see how the variety of gods (that eventually became the Judeo/Christian/Islamic) -the BIG3– God is suffering from a variety of psychological ailments.

Please feel free to comment.

…in search of Truth!

Enjoy!

I’m reading the Tanakh & other writings associated w/ the Judeo/Christian/Islamic God.

I’ve concluded that God is not only Bipolar, but suffers from Erotomania, Adult Antisocial Behavior, Age-related Cognitive Decline & a variety of Cognitive Disorders.

He also seems to suffer Histrionic Personality Disorder and Separation Anxiety Disorder.

I also surmise he is a Sadist.

If God’s not dead, he should be medicated & locked up for a while.

Here are a few AKAs for God/The Lord:

God. AKA

YHWH
EL
ELOHIM
Creator
Preserver
Transcendent
EL SHADDAI
God All Sufficient
Master
ADONAI
JEHOVAH
Yahweh
Jehovah Elohim
The Self-Existent One
I AM WHO I AM
I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE
The Lord will Provide
The Lord Who Heals
The Lord Our Banner
The Lord Who Sanctifies
The Lord Our Peace
SHEPHERD
JUDGE
LORD God
The Lord Our Righteousness
The Lord Our Shepherd
The Lord is There
The Lord of Hosts
Most High
Mighty One
The Branch
Holy One
Judge
God of Seeing
Jealous
Deliverer
YESHUA

1st Wave of Comments:

Eric Ganassi that dastardly demiurge

Alonzo Lively Sadist for sure, and quite narcissistic as well.

Carel Bester Fortunately, that’s only one theory of what God is..

Boston Paul There are a whole bunch of names I did not put up… y’all feel free to add!

Boston Paul The effects of prayer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI&feature=player_embedded

Hank Truck My favorite name is The Highest of High!
(And I am what I am?…Wasn’t that Popeye’s line?!)

Michael T. Lane Read The Kingdom of God is Within You by Tolstoy. He sheds a wise light on the “bipolar” nature of the OT vs. the NT. Then he goes on to revile the entire foundations of Christian society and its hypocrisy. Good read.

Daffy DuK Dude.. they haven’t got me yet!! And you forgot hedonist !

Landis Wayne Shook waiting for god’s post on what he concludes on BP.. lol

Boston Paul He hasn’t spoken directly to any human being since the Book of Job.

Don’t hold your breath, bro.

😉

Landis Wayne Shook What!!! You mean he doesn’t FB.. uh. uh.. the shock.. lol ha ha (and noted the type.. hasn’t)

Landis Wayne Shook Though the Mormon’s would argue with you there.

Sleepy Head Psychology will be the death of us all…

Boston Paul

Thanks Landis… God HASN’T spoken to humans directly since Job.

He could be on FB though disguised as Glenn Beck whom shares similar mental disorders.

It was the angel Mormon/Moroni (?) that revealed plates to Good Ol’ Joe Smith kind of like Gabriel giving the Qur’an to Muhammad.

Sleepy Head: if God is suffering from these disorders… and one is a believer… it could very well be!

Viba Gouriet

I am not familiar with how the Tanakh differs from the OT exactly and not sure what associated writing you refer to, but I am sure it’s no light reading. There is much more than meets the eye. As such, it would be foolish if one were to dra…w conclusions after, let’s say, browsing through the accounts of destruction and taking them at face value.

Admittedly, Mosaic Law was harsh with many accounts in the Bible confirming this. For me the account described in Numbers 15:32 is particularly disturbing. Then there are the foreskin trophies, among other violent acts, against the Palestinians, Egyptians, and lesser-known tribes, particularly in the accounts of David. To add to the woe, most of these books are easily disregarded by contemporary society and are considered out of touch with reality.

Yet, there are many treasures that remain and, in the writing’s own words, will never be discovered, by, the intellect. Oh, the irony! I do believe you can add a sense of humor to your list of traits. I could highlight some of the amazing prophesies of Job, Isaiah, Daniel – and there is much in King Solomon’s – despite his later failings – that strikes chords. Nevertheless, I fear it would defeat the purpose of self discovery. God’s withdrawal is well documented though, as is his intervention.

Primarily, I think you have to ask yourself why are you reading such material. Are you truly open-minded – not hard-hearted? Or perhaps, as a thinker, you have the objective of arming yourself with information so as to win a debate. That would seem wise, wouldn’t it? However, with such a premise, it is difficult to see how you will ever truly benefit from such readings. You could be climbing up the ladder – but on the wrong wall, for want of a better analogy. Of course, it would be easy to turn the tables and say the same thing about the other wall, but that is the wall you want study. The only prerequisite of which is that you are not hard-hearted as you begin. Can you say you are not? Unfortunately, most cannot.

I don’t mean to enter a religious debate here. Neither do I wish to enforce my views on others. I feel I neither have the means nor the time at the moment. Nevertheless, I can’t help but feel slightly offended by your remarks. It seems Christians are everybody’s soft targets nowadays. I would ask how/why, but know human history will supply your answers. However, genuine Christians do get the rough end. I mean genuine – not the ponce, not the frilly hats.

I still don’t know the answers, but feel concerned that you have so freely drawn your conclusions after reading such immense material and have joined, what comes across as, little more than a smear campaign against religion – or more directly the Christian, and in this case Jewish, faith.

I cannot imagine you posting such inflammatory material about Allah for example.

Peace&Love

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Published in: on September 23, 2010 at 4:14 PM  Comments (7)  

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  1. It was an interesting experience. I recommend

  2. […] If God’s Not Dead… […]

  3. @Christie Gibson

    If sinners won’t get it unless we feel the fires of hell, then isn’t that a little sadistic. When we feel the fires of hell, it will be too late. That doesn’t make much sense.

    It’s a common myth that people attack christianity because they have some internal sense that the judeo/christian/jesus god is real. I think it’s mostly because most english speakers tend to follow christianity, it’s more of a “go for the biggest target”. I for one have made numerous efforts to attack islam as well, but I just don’t get much response. Interestingly enough, the response I did get was exactly the same as for xtians.. “Believe my God and repent, or suffer forever..”..

    Calling your brothers and sisters pagan isn’t very nice. They’re only pagan in your eyes because they interpreted some scripture differently than you did. That really points to the fact that an all knowing super intelligent entity seems to have some real issues communicating. I would expect more out of a deity.

    You’re making claims like “God is Holy, perfect, pure, without fault. He hates sin more than you could ever know.”, how do you know these things? Better yet, how can your show evidence for them?

  4. Terry Sommers:
    but while i’m at it, here is this:

    read, oh you brave christian soldiers
    and celtic pagans
    and hockey players, too. There’s DEFINITELY something in this for you!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popol_Vuh


    Terry Sommers: ‎@michele, no, i’ve understood that analogy, and it is the tail, the hoof, ears, etc of the elephant, but i’m not talking about that, so if you direct me further,perhaps i can entertain you. I was speaking what I felt about this long convoluted digestion, and you’re as much a speck in it as me.


    Michele Dicks: I’d like to imagine that I am that little thing in the back of the elephants throat. You know, the thing that causes the gag reflex…in relation to this long convoluted digestion…


    Terry Sommers: i reckon we’re about to tread on different fields


    Boston Paul:
    It is 432AM here in Taiwan… I just got home after a night of celebrating Mid Autumn Festival…

    Michele, I am not mocking. Please re-read my first 5 comments or so esp after Viba commented. Read carefully please.

    I have a love-hate relationship with cheese.

    Peaces of love….

    Terry Sommers together though, just a guess


    Boston Paul: Miss ya Terry.

    • Lisa Jayne: Don’t worry about God, he’s exiled to the great fairyland of Sky. It’s his son loose on Earth you’ve got to keep an eye on.


    Terry Sommers:
    but in regards to hell, no matter how long it’s been around, has been pretty useless as it relates to making this present world better. So why not think upwards? judgement, righteousness, what is that;? it’s an excuse to condemn, to ce…lebrate Victimhood, to chant the name of vengence
    wtf god is that?
    . but this is different from civil law, so let’s not go there.

    Michele Dicks:
    The jug of milk analogy is ridiculous. Paul, if you are resorting to such tactics to try & convince people that God is imaginary, than you must truly be nearing the end of your rope.

    Why don’t YOU re-read your comments, & take a step back… and honestly ask yourself how your commentary might be misconstrued? as mockery. I am not the only one who picked up on this angle. I believe Viba also responded with offense to your approach, only with a little more self restraint.


    Terry Sommers: Man VS God, Michele


    Terry Sommers ‎…and …ummm what’s wrong with jugs of milk analorgies?


    Michele Dicks: Man VS God? You can’t be serious. Of course your not, because that would be ludicrous.


    Philip Vinal:
    Paul- yes you do mock the Christian God. As a matter of fact it seems to be a purposeful goal of your life. If God were as unimportant and messed up as you believe, then I would guess you would never speak of the subject as being to rid…iculous to discuss. In fact the issue that you are constantly trying to belittle God, indicates that you percieve him as a threat. The fact that we dont fully understand God is comforting to me, but worrisome to you.

    Its okay though, this is nothing new, and I am pretty sure God can take all the mockery.

    here is a quote that Blaise Pascal wrote, that is rather pragmatic about God. Give it a thought.. or two. what do you have to lose? well, alot.

    Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. Blaise Pascal..

    Philip Vinal:
    ‎@ Chris- you stated—-“I’m sorry for all the Christians who live good lives through their faith—but Christianity cannot be separated from its fundamental doctrines, which are hateful and ridiculous….”

    Which doctrines are you referrin…g to? The one about Love your neighbor as yourself? Doing good and praying for your enemies? Taking care of the needy, the fatherless, the widowed? I am confused as to why you would consider those so hateful or ridiculous.

    Now about choice……Mankind does have a choice, but your understanding of pre-destination and free will is likely messed up. This can be a difficult concept to understand, but is easier to come to grips with if you have a clearer understanding of God. Being good, just, powerful , infinite, and timeless……outside our timeline, he obviously knows what you will do in the future, ….but you are still given a choice to do this or that…to do right or wrong….to obey God as a good child would obey his parents or not. Parenthood is a good analogy (although not perfect) of Gods relationship with us. Those that disobey are punished or disciplined but are always loved. Those who obey enjoy a closer relationship with the parent.

    Eventually though if the child wants nothing to do with the parent, then the parent may grant a separation and no relationship exists, though it would grieve the parents heart. The Bible speaks of Gods desire for all humanity to come and have a relationship with him. But God being considerate, would not force you to come to him…that would be enslavement. He offers a gift of relationship, and voluntary association with him.

    Enjoy the discourse, but a bit bewildered about the cheese…lol

    Hank Truck: This Guy comes into a bar and says…
    Oh, wait…were people taking this thread seriously?!
    Ha ha! Jokes!
    Well….See you in church!


    Stephanie Conboy: man is god


    Blaine Heggie: 何沛恩 Landis is right. And it was Moroni. When you say Job, what do you mean? And, Which translation have you been reading?


    Christopher Ward:
    ‎@Michele: So you can’t justify the truthfulness of your belief, you just have it to hedge your bets? Curious indeed. Remember that people approaching this subject are confronted with various competing claims, about God, the afterlife, etc.

    They have to assess them. I’m of the mind that “terroristic threatening employed by a God of love agape” is a claim worthy of dismissal. Now if a person were assessing this, and the seed of fear from that terroristic threat started growing in their brain, and they thought, “Wow, that Hell sounds sooo bad, I’d better believe this, just in case!” –then they’re still stuck with problem of convincing themselves that it actually IS true, and they’re not just trying to believe it to hedge their bets. I personally don’t know how that works. As a descriptive, Pascal’s Wager is okay enough; as a prescriptive it’s a fallacy.

    Christopher Ward:
    ‎@Philip: You really think I’m talking about those doctrines? I already outlined the main one I was talking about.

    A Calvinist will tell you that belief is not an act of free will. A hyper-Calvanist definitely will. I assume you’re fami…liar with the ongoing and unending debate between Calvinism and Arminianism. The Arminian is correct that if some people never really have a chance to be saved, then God is a monster. If God truly knows past-present-future perfectly as some claim, perhaps you as well, then the idea that he “desires” all to be saved is absurd. It makes as much sense for me to “desire” that my friend’s dog didn’t eat poison last weekend.

    As for belief being a “choice”—what criteria would one use to determine whether to “choose” to believe something? That criteria cannot already imply the truthfulness of the proposition, for that would mean that the belief is already present.

    Christopher Ward: The Mormon God is a nicer God, but being wrong about it just isn’t terrifying enough for some people.


    Viba Gouriet:
    ‎@Wesley
    Because of past atrocities you imply my position is hypocritical when I suggest Christians are soft targets. I understand why you say that and, like you, look back in utter disbelief at the wickedness we acted on, apparently in the …name of God. But you yourself say that they acted against God’s will. Does that not make them unchristian then? No matter what they as people claim.

    We are not ignorant enough to denounce an entire faith because one man wishes to burn a Koran. Nor do we when others choose to fly airplanes into buildings in the name of Allah (Ok – another contentious issue here). Do we not view these people as extremists? I contend there were other extremists centuries ago – only with much more power, control, and military – caught up in their own greed and self-importance, grossly distorted from faith. If they were/are heading the church does not necessarily make them Christian.

    The panaceas of love you prescribe is in alignment with God’s will. We have done a pretty awful job managing civilization with it so far. I fear the worst if we were without.

    @Paul
    You can dress it up or tell me to read between the lines but despite your experience as a youth, a surprising read, this “meaningful” debate started with just a thread of name calling in mockery.

    Peace

    Philip Vinal:
    ‎@ Chris-one can choose to believe something based on the facts, but the real choice is whether to obey once you are convinced it is true.

    As far as Blaise Pascals quote, like I said , it is a pragmatic approach as to why it makes sense to believe and then obey, but I was convinced on a deeper level.

    Now as far as Calvinism vs Arminianism….neither extreme is probably 100% right. You have to remember, that both are inadequate in explaining God, for when do we think that any man can have a 100% grasp of all that God is…..

    I will even be willing to argue that a creator is not a monster if he decides to do this or to do that with his creation, and although he even has the right to assign some to a certain destiny, I dont think that is how it works….

    What kind of monster would God be considered if you decided to reject him, and he lets you have your way and live as you choose, despite the fact that you will end up eternally separated from God? Seems reasonable to me. So if God is good, being eternally separated from him would be the absense of God….or bad (hell).

    As far as the fruit in the Garden, knowing the eventual result….He still gave them the choice. without the choice to obey or not, man would be no more than a robot in flesh.

    I still have not seen the hateful doctrine, perhaps you can help me understand that better.


    Viba Gouriet: On a side note, I think science may ultimately lead us closer to religion but not without a tug-of-war. Had to smile at this.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11383620


    Philip Vinal: I can make a choice to believe certain evidence….for example, is the world round or flat? Well, since I have travelled east and circumnavigated the globe, that is a bit of evidence about a round or spherical earth. I have calculated the math on distance to the horizon and it works for a spherical model, so based on convincing evidence, I make the choice to believe a certain theory. In the same way, I can make a choice to not believe something.


    Daniel Ship: Could we PLEASE please bring this conversation back to the original topic — cheese!!!

    Dana Bermudez: You should all make your peace soon! 2012 is coming! The end is near! LMAO! C’mon and say it with me in a scary voice…”2012!” lol

    Michael T. Lane:
    Since this is a pro vs. con Xian argument here, I find it odd that Jesus is lost in the shuffle. To speak of Christianity, the “real” one at least, is to speak of Jesus, who He was, what He did, and where and how it happened. Yet here, al…l I see is conjecture, argument about the nature of God and a whole lot of associating the wheat with the chaff, so to speak, damning the Xian worldview for the excesses of history.

    So about Jesus:

    1) He owned nothing and asked his closest followers to do the same

    2) He was frequently followed around by masses who he often chose to run away and hide from.

    3) The Jesus “movement” was completely and totally different than anything before it in the area it sprouted up. Nothing was similar to it in the Roman world, and its difference from Judaism while claiming the same lineage is pretty much what got Him murdered.

    4) Jesus told people that functional meaning and true heart intention trumped form and ritual at any time (this may seem blase to modern ears, but you basically just signed your death warrant in 33AD with this claim, cause you just robbed a wealthy and powerful class (scribes and rabbis) of their self-prescribed moral justification.

    5) He antagonized those he thought led people away from God. At times he was downright nasty. Openly calling the scribes beautiful speulchres with rotting bones inside. That’s pretty hard, especially with others around to hear.

    6) His concern was spiritual and he had zero to little conflict with the Roman state. He was not a statist, saw civilization as essentially worldly and corrupt, but not the true object of his scorn.

    7) The Sermon on the Mount sums up his mission and he had only 2 commandments, and on them, He said, hung all the law and all the prophets. Love God and love what God loves. All the other stuff is extra mind fluff so if you can’t do these two things, no reason to expand your knowledge of the subtle spheres, the ether, the whatever. Again, this may sound blase, but telling people it’s that simple was a complete and utter refutation of Judaic and Roman conceptions of form and ritual, which were the heart of their justification for power.

    8) Jesus said God needed no intermediary, you could address and hear from God directly. Pray in a closet if need be. Again, a direct attack on the notion of temples and priests.

    In the end, it is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING that Jesus was turned into the very heart of state power, which uses violence as the basic expression of its will. Turn the other cheek was his injunction, while the state turned it into Turn the Other Cheek in your neighborhood, but if things get too hard or if we want something that person has, chuck it and kick some ass.

    Xianity is a state/social construct religion, while the mission of Jesus was a direct refutation of religion as social construct. And Jesus foresaw his future misrepresentation, or the writers of the Gospel attribute that knowledge to Him. Which is amazing, because all the Gospels were written within 100 years of his death and it wasn’t till around 400AD and Nicea that Xianity became somewhat like what we see today. In those 300 years, it’s amazing that it not only didn’t disappear into the wind, but was taken in by the dominant civilization, choked of its message and used to reconstruct Roman polytheism in a new guise. No more new deities, but sanctified angels and saints and such.

    Dana Bermudez:
    It’s funny to me that the people that do believe in God were indoctrinated into religion at an impressionable age by their parents who were also raised the same way by their parents and so on. This is called “brainwashing”. If religious peo…ple told me, that after researching histories and ideologies at an educated age about religion and this particular religion is the religion that best suits them then I would accept that, but unfortunately this is not the case. Religion is usually not freedom of choice rather it is imposed upon them by the most influential people in their lives, their parents. However, the dawn of the information age will bring enlightenment to those who are lost. People around the world will openly share opinions and people will become re-educated as old ideas do not match new ideas proven by science and technology. This battle with who has the best or most superior religion has been going on for centuries! I’ll tell you what… you never see a Buddhist try to convince or impose their beliefs on another.

    Dana Bermudez: Paul, I am your bro, and I know that you speak from the heart with no ill will towards others! Keep speaking and someday, maybe when the aliens make contact with Earth on a global scale, you will have changed the minds of those who are trapped behind their mind’s fear of the unknown… after all according to the bible earth is the center of the universe and there are no aliens, ghosts or dinosaurs! The Christians are going to have a hard time trying to explain aliens when the truth comes out, and it will…soon!

    Tyler Dakin: A god with similar neuroses to my own … interesting

    Jimmy Nickles: Tyler is my God. I thank thee, Tyler, for cheese.

    Viba Gouriet: ‎@Dana

    I’m afraid your original post about brainwashing does not stand up to scrutiny.

    As for the aliens, if they were intelligent they would stay away..;)

    Dana Bermudez: Show me a six year old that can decide for him/her self about what religion is best suited for them and I’ll show you a monkey that believes in god.

    Dana Bermudez: Sure aliens might want to stay away from all the wacko religious sects constantly bickering among themselves about which is right and which is wrong. That would be annoying enough to make any alien chug their beer, pay the tab and get the hell out! lol
    Here’s the link for the “monkey believing in god” thing.
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37454928481&v=app_2392950137#!/video/video.php?v=457328019198&oid=37454928481

    Boston Paul:
    Greetings and Happy Mid Autumn Moon Festival to y’all!

    Facebook is a useful tool for presenting ideas to the Community at large. The one thing that is very inconvenient of course is that we cannot reply under a Contributing Person’s post… …this makes dialogue a bit cumbersome.

    What I may do is put this over at WordPress where one can reply directly to any comment posted… and is available to the world at large. Stay tuned.

    I appreciate the sentiment and indeed applaud the polite, scholarly fashion (with tidbits of humor) permeating this dialogue.

    I would like to point out, once again, that I am not mocking. I am challenging, however.

    Please note, that even the most ardent, skeptical scientist cannot with 100% certainty claim there is no god. I am also not claiming this. What I have done however is to take ‘God’ as the character of a story and looked at Him in a critical, analytical way.

    The God that makes up the Supreme Being in Heaven for the BIG 3 (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) is, in fact, a culmination of a variety of gods.

    The Big 3 claim that their god is unchanging, yet in each of the books of the Tanakh, he changes. He is even a woman (or at least compares himself to one) at one point.

    Based on his actions, how he talks about himself, how the Jews talk about him and regard him; if he were a human – a mere mortal – he would have been taken into custody.

    Don’t fret, John Nash (game theory) was a genius and he spent a good many years medicated in a safe house.

    An essay I am writing on ‘God’ and his multiple personalities, his irrational behaviour, and the various gods that eventually became the BIG3 God, is forthcoming.

    I will break it all down for you and will have lots of books and scripture to refer to for the Godly (and not so godly) ones out there.

    Phil, I look at the myriad of gods out there philosophically. It is what I do. I believe we should always question what we believe.

    One should Question their belief in no god just as one should question their belief in a god or gods.

    And as a side note, Phil – I will also include contradictions in the bible from the good many lists out there in cyber-world. A rebuttal to your thoughtful email is forthcoming.

    Mike, Jesus just adds to the dilemma.

    I kept him out of it just because God creates himself again to be tortured and die for the mess he created.

    Are we chess pieces?

    If he is all knowing, then when he tested Adam and Eve; when he tested Job; this all knowing God would have already known the result of these tests – making the tests moot. Did he do it for his amusement?

    This is Sadism in its highest form.

    Messing with ants comes to mind. Draw a line through their path and watch them go haywire.

    Jesus was however, the Ultimate Hippie, was he god? Not relevant. But he was the ultimate, socialist, peace-loving, vegetarian philosopher. Real person or not – god or not.

    Will be back later.

    Love for Humanity.

    Love for Earthlings.

    Dana Bermudez:
    Here’s the link for the “six year old believing in god” thing too! lol The human imagination is amazing! As intelligent beings we are able to create anything we want with the power of our minds. Think about that and then let the sarcasm sink in a little…lmao

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37454928481&v=app_2392950137#!/video/video.php?v=456930814198&oid=37454928481

    Dana Bermudez: ‎@Paul- Very well said! Couldn’t have said it better myself! You ROCK!

    Philip Vinal:
    ‎@ Paul- saying that my God is bipolar and should be locked up is not a statement that is worthy of a scholarly arguement, and yes it is akin to mocking.

    I assume that your highly “evolved” mind can only imagine that the only reason God …provided a choice for Adam and Eve was to test them. The fact that Adam/Eve and yes even Job had a choice to obey, and honor God enables there to be a closer relationship with their creator than there could be otherwise. Adam and Eve enjoyed an intimate relationship with God for some amount of time, prior to their disobedience.

    Did the fact that God exists outside of time make his interaction with his creation less real? Was it for amusement or relationship? Although we humans must be amusing, insight into why God created us is evident throughout the Bible. I know that you give just about zero credence to the Bible, but the evidence of Gods plan is also revealed thru creation and the analogies that are evident thru the nuclear family.

    The issue of Jesus is not God creating himself again, but more of God getting closer to his creation by revealing himself in a way that the creation can get closer to.

    Much like if you were to become an ant so you there is no excuse from the position of that ant society that You (God) does not understand them.

    And one final note- as far as cheese goes, I like Mozzeralla.

    Love then Peace

    Blaine Heggie: 何沛恩 If you’re just challenging , in a peaceful sort of way, then let’s have at it. Youv’e been reading the Tanakh / Masorecit text / KJV Old testament or whatever you want to call it… If your conclusion is based upon this preamble, then site references from the Tanakh that show that God is bipolar, has erotomania, adult antisocial behavior, age related cognitive, and that he is a sadist. Otherwise, there is nothing to challenge except opinion.
    P.S. I think ya hit the jack pot with this post:)

    Tyler Dakin:
    To be honest paul, I’m not sure why you posted this thread … You can explain it to me in person some time … I’ve let go of the anger of my Christian upbringing/background a long time ago … I just see a lot of blah, blah, blah, … It… has obviously struck a chord with many people, though.
    If anyone wants to know what I really think about this … you can befriend me (if you haven’t already) and write me a message …

    Keep searching people for truth people!

    p.s. the cheese comments on this thread are (to me) kind of offensive … some people Do take ideas of God, eternity, the soul, existence, etc., seriously … You are not Oscar Wilde, Rowan Atkinson, or even Adam Sandler … It’s been done better and with more tact.
    Peace.
    Ty

    Viba Gouriet:
    ‎@Dana: It does not hold up because you presume the age people become Christian – an unfair generalization. However, Zeitgeist has been enlightening. Not sure where the aliens fit in though.

    @Paul: If you read Job 1: 6-12 again, you might see God did not test Job.

    Good luck with everybody’s quest!

    Christopher Ward:
    Philip, given your scenario the real trick would be ‘choosing’ to believe the earth is flat! Maybe other minds work differently but the way I see it this. If I have traveled east around the world and studied the math behind the curviture o…f the planet, and found the evidence convincing, I’ve already come to believe it. To then ‘choose’ to believe something on those grounds is a tautology–I choose to believe it because I believe it. For me the belief is beyond my willpower. I’ve tried to believe certain things that I wanted to be true, hoped were true, but in the end I had to acknowledge what conclusion my mind had come to. My choice comes in before and after my beliefs are formed, choosing to investigate evidence, choosing how to act on the belief, etc.

    It’s been years since I dove into this stuff, and it may be years till the next time. In the meantime it’s been interesting, and here’s to thick skins all around!


  5. Terry Sommers
    Jesus was voted into deity-hood, round about the time the Romans realized the vibes of jesus weren’t going away amongst their population. Before that time, he was a dude, much more a philosoph than a god. Which begs the question: if chr…istianity is a monotheistic religion, then how could the son of a god be tolerated?

    The bible may be the best seller of all time, but it’s also had untold number of human, and hence fallible, editors in the works. Personally, I don’t trust any organized religion, because they’re full of people who just want to milk it for themselves. This does not deny the existence of a diety, whose presence i’ve felt, nowhere near a church nor religiously organized event.

    Michele Dicks
    ‎@ Terry: I can relate to your second paragraph. Everyone believes in something. Even if they believe in nothing. I can’t see anything negative about following Jesus. he’s O.k. by me, to say the least. Why can’t people just all agree that w…e will all know the be all end all of what is true & what is not when we die, leave it at that & get on to something else. I don’t see the point in expending so much energy trying to prove one is right & another wrong. I’ll see you all on the other side & we can talk about it then.
    Christopher Ward I have unwittingly drawn attention to falsehood!! Zounds!! Touche, Michele.

    Michele Dicks
    ‎@ Christopher: Here’s a thought,(can’t help myself). Let’s say, for the sake of the point you made two comments ago, that God actually is demanding & unreasonable. If He said, “If you want to dwell in the kingdom of Heaven, free of pain …& illness, surrounded by those you love, dwelling in harmony, peace & joy for all eternity, then all you have to do is honer & worship me. OR, if you don’t, spend eternity burning in hell…”….Sounds like the choice would be a no-brainer. Would you actually be willing to suffer in hell forever just to spite God? I don’t feel the need to prove ANY point that badly.
    I’m going to go so far as to say that many of you sound like whining children. You want all the love, love, love that the concept of a god has to offer, but can’t HANDLE the concepts of godly wrath & judgment. Well buck up & face life, all 100% of it, not just the warm & cuddly parts. be accountable for yourselves. It’s good practice for one day we will all be accountable to God. (Just my opinion, of course)
    Jason Jagabags Tonkin Excellent!!! Truly entertaining. Thanks Paul.
    Terry Sommers
    Isn’t Hell kind of a near-renaissance concept, like with dante? (and love and dating) Ok, I must confess, i haven’t seriously read the bible since hich skool, so if anyone can point out in the bible about eternal damnation and torment, i’d… liiiike to read it. Wikipedia is so wiked! like Wikians. you know, witches, those bitches who knew that certain plants did this and that, and at certain times of the year, you could expect this and that, and they didn’t give a crap about some dude that suddenly became engraved in law as a god. ooops. what???? this stranger is now our saviour? What? i don’t dig that so now i’m the BBQ? Now we call that bitch un-american.
    Terry Sommers Meh. I’m scouring the web. The Egyptians had a concept of hell, but again it’s translated into english, so who knows what they hell they meant…
    about an hour ago •

    Michele Dicks ‎@ Terry: You are missing the point, I’m afraid. You are focusing on the flea on the elephants rump.

  6. 3rd Wave of Comments:


    Aleks No: If you “infect” soft farmer cheese with chunks of bleu cheese you will get bleu cheese FOR REALS. Oh yeah, JVH1 sux we are all gods.

    Michele Dicks: PAUL…….you claim that you do not mock…..The definition of mock, is to treat or address scornfully or derisively; hold up to ridicule. I have read over all of your comments twice to make sure that I am not mistaken. I am not. Your comments are full of mockery & disdain. I am so disappointed in you that I could cry…

    I am a Christian, which to me means, that I bend the knee to Jesus Christ, no matter what. If any of these non-believing people met me, they would never believe that I was a Christian based on all of the things that they believe a Christian represents….this all saddens me, greatly, mainly because if the nature of the way you have expressed yourself on this thread…….don’t ever profess again to not mock because you most certainly do. At least be honest. That I can respect.

    I am addressing you, harshly, though as my friend. What can I say, I’m mad at you.

    Cha L. When a discussion goes from conclusive opinions of what is God to creamy cheese, one knows faith and knowledge in omnipotent deities are strong and rich… just like blue cheese. I love it, Paul.

    Rick Wolfe: If he’s the author of ” The Bible” you can throw shitty writer on the list too!


    Veronica Jhang 張維倫:
    This so-called God among Christians and exists in many other religion system is not that REAL GOD–Briefly, THE UNIVERSAL WISDOM. The universal wisdome won’t give us an image of ”Vengeful and Bias and conflicting God”.

    However, The Universal Wisdom is just within each one of us, we won’t realize it until you’re really in it–that’s The State of Love.


    Christopher Ward: Paul, shame on you if you claimed not to mock. Mockery is an important critical tool, it helped marginalize the KKK.

    I’m sorry for all the Christians who live good lives through their faith—but Christianity cannot be separated from its fundamental doctrines, which are hateful and ridiculous. Eternal Hell? Please, can humans even imagine eternity? No. And how does one get away from that threat? God decreed that his son must be tortured to pay for man’s fallen state, which was brought about because God put a forbidden fruit in with Adam and Eve, which he knew they would eat. Those who acknowledge Jesus as God and worship him are spared.

    It was a setup!

    The most repugnant of Christians doctrines say that man doesn’t even have a choice to believe the story—God chooses whom he does and that’s that. But they do have one thing right—belief is NOT a choice, and this is something that free-will Christians can’t accept, because THEY’RE right about something, too—if belief is not a matter of choice then the Christian God is a monster.

    Michele Dicks: I can accept criticism & people expressing themselves who came at me straight between the eyes…ask J.I….just don’t start out as a gentle ponderer & then change tactics. That’s false representation. 1LUV & all that, is slamming my God part of your 1LUV concept? Talk about hypercritical…I don’t make fun of the false gods out there deceiving mankind, to do so, would only draw attention to falsehood. So thank you, all of you mockers & scoffers for bringing so much focus & attention upon my God!

  7. 2nd wave of Comments:

    Daffy Duk: What a tangled web we weave. Please keep wasting your time.

    Boston Paul @ Viba: this might answer a couple questions you posted (I assume directed towards me):

    https://bostonpaul.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/boston-paul-short-historyresume/

    scroll down to Let’s Get Personal. Read in between the lines.

    My study of the scriptures and the like has not stopped since I was a youth… and I like to go back and review every couple years.

    The OT is derived from the Tanakh, though most Jews would agree that the OT is discombobulated and has been re-edited to suit Christianity.

    Since Allah and all the other names of the Judeo/Christian Deity listed above are apparently one in the same. He does not escape the critique.

    Look at God strictly as a character in the literary sense.

    He is a crackpot, a fruitcake… medically certifiable.

    It is a beautiful sunny day here in Taichung.

    I want to bask in the rays of another once popular god.

    Let the rays of Ra shine upon you this glorious day!

    See you tonight-ish!

    1LUV

    Carlos Brusco:
    ‎—Tao reads something like :
    the Name that can be Named, is not the real Name…
    ———————————————-
    Good old Rah, our Sun that creates life…God is light, they say, no light no life, and for me, theres only on…e thing in life, but life.
    —-
    you still listen what Mormons say? lol
    They believe in God as a Super being ,superpowerfull white manlike, manmade God, looking down from above…Thats definetly not what God symbolize to me/
    INI , I and I. Theres no God but Us, here and now.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Anyway if you change the name of “God” for “Humans” you sentence also makes sense, “Human made society” suffer from Erotomania, Adult Antisocial Behavior, Age-related Cognitive Decline & a variety of Cognitive Disorders.

    what is the nature of these angry, sadist Gods? is that the nature of ourselves? so are we just only scared monkeys?

    —————————————————————————
    ” Different people call on [God] by different names: some as Allah, some as God, and others as Krishna, Siva, and Brahman. It is like the water in a lake. Some drink it at one place and call it ‘jal’, others at another place and call it ‘pani’, and still others at a third place and call it ‘water’. The Hindus call it ‘jal’, the Christians ‘water’, and the Moslems ‘pani’. But it is one and the same thing. ”
    – Sri Ramakrishna(1)
    ………………………………………………………………………………..
    yuhuuu its a sunny day!!!after the typhoon it seems great !!!bless!!

    Rock Starkey: I’m going to spend this evening listening to Ann Murray. I don’t know why, but this post inspired me somehow.

    Wesley Jay:
    This was a most interesting discussion. I see no smear campaign here. No, I think the Christians already took care of that decades ago, when they decided to do what their God preached against and that was JUDGE, an…d they went ahead and slaughtered everyone and anyone who wouldn’t follow what they believed was right. Now the poor poor Christians stand there wondering why their beliefs are viewed as they are today. You can’t call the world a hypocrite when you are one yourself.
    Sure the basic principles of the religion have good intentions, but then again so do most religions. I think the problem is that people are always looking to be lead. Someone to tell them what is right and what is wrong, when really we have to start focusing on leading ourselves. We know what needs to be done. We know what is right and what is wrong, but instead we keep looking towards something or someone to point the way, to raise the flag, to signal the charge. No wonder people so desperately cling onto anything that they can give them some kind of meaning, some kind of understanding or greater knowledge of that which they themselves are too terrified face alone.

    Now that being said, I will say that if you follow something devotedly then props to you, but just stop looking at people as if they are condemned to hell because they don’t follow your views. That’s called judging and that is a sin. People can still be good and not follow anything besides their own personal beliefs. I mean wouldn’t the best kind of Christian be the kind that just sat there and took whatever was being said about their belief and allowed it to happen without retaliation? To “turn the other cheek” as such? What’s the point in trying to defend something if you know that it is ultimately right? Because if it is then it needs no defending no matter what the case.
    In the end what the world really needs is not a leader, not a religion, no it needs love. It needs people to embrace and to truly care about on another.
    Thanks for sparking this Paul. There aren’t enough meaningful discussions on Facebook.

    Jimmy Nickles: i like cheese

    Christie Gibson: God is Holy, perfect, pure, without fault. He hates sin more than you could ever know. Unless you feel the fires of Hell, you will not get it. No sinner will stand before Him. All are condemned to Hell. He invented the body. He invent…ed blood. He decides their meaning. He decides their end. All sinners go to Hell unless they take His way of escape, believing in His own sacrifice, Jesus Christ.

    You attack Christianity because there is something there that is powerful that your soul senses and cannot escape. If you were consistent, you’d be attacking other religions who are far worse and have far less to offer. You don’t care much about them because it is God who you are fighting, and to fight God, your soul brings you back to Christianity.
    I am not defending what “Christians” have done in the past. People call America a “Christian” nation and blame what we do on Christ when in truth, most of America is pagan. Calling yourself a Christian does not make you one today nor did it back then. Those who follow Jesus Christ are Christians.

    Jimmy Nickles: if you leave simple cream cheese in the fridge long enough to go mouldy, most people wont know the difference between it and real blue cheese. That’s a little tip there.

    Carlos Brusco thanks jimmy!!i also love cheese!!!cheese 1 god 0

    Jimmy Nickles that should be Cheese 2, everything else…who cares

    Carlos Brusco OMG http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/


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